Rock Stars & Rock Bottoms: Recovery Unfiltered

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:16:23
Unknown
You know when I'm looking for it to hire somebody, I go, you know, kindness. And then kind of like requirements. It's kind of kindness, kindness and then some technical knowledge. Yeah. And then some personal and some professional experience. But it's kind of we need love. It's to me detox reminds me a lot of hospice. Yeah. When people in hospice people are scared.

00:00:16:23 - 00:00:31:19
Unknown
They don't know what to do. Don't know what to do. Like it's the same with detox when you're just at your fucking breaking point on your death bed. You're not on a winning streak, right? When you're when you're in detox, right? That's not the lowest right point of your life. And that's when you need the love the most.

00:00:31:21 - 00:00:50:17
Unknown
And for me, it's like I personally like to treat everybody like they're a fucking rockstar or somebody very special. And you just don't know it yet because we all are. Yeah. And unless you can see that in somebody, you don't allow them to be that kindness isn't just a virtue, it's a lifeline. And nowhere is that more true than in the raw, unfiltered journey of recovery.

00:00:50:17 - 00:01:13:10
Unknown
This is beyond the window, the podcast where we get real about addiction, healing, and the messy, beautiful work of staying like today. Director of Detox Gwendolyn Casella sits down with and intern alumni voice to in deep conversation on relapse, jailhouse redemption, and why recovery isn't about perfection, it's about showing up. Stick around here with another edition of Beyond the Window.

00:01:13:12 - 00:01:32:23
Unknown
When I'm here, we get raw and fucking uncut zero fs given, right? We get real, we get. That's what I'm talking about. That's what I'm talking about. And I'm really happy to be here today with you. Lori. Me and Lori have a lot of history. We do? Yeah, I love you. I love you, too. I respect the hell out of you.

00:01:32:23 - 00:01:52:12
Unknown
I respect the hell are you? I'd like to start by just saying, when I was in treatment, and I want to say 1997, you were a PC card holder. Yeah, I was, and you used to come into the. I'm going to cry already. You used to come into the treatment center where I was a client, and you'd come in and you'd pick up women.

00:01:52:14 - 00:02:12:07
Unknown
Yes, I did, and you take them out to meetings. You got the chills. The only problem was, is that I was doing a whole lot of that stuff and a whole lot of not not taking not working on myself. But it doesn't negate that now, you know, it doesn't take anything away from that. And for me, you know what this whole thing is?

00:02:12:07 - 00:02:32:10
Unknown
It's fucking love and service. Love and service. Yes. But we also have to love ourselves. We have to love ourselves and give service to ourselves. Yes. Right. I'm listening. I'm taking notes. Yeah. I'm, you know, I, you know, I, I, I, you know, if I don't have if I don't have the game, if I'm not armed with that game, then I can't give it to anybody else.

00:02:32:10 - 00:02:48:08
Unknown
But I can still take somebody to a meeting. Yes. Yeah. So I remember that when I was brand new and I didn't know what the hell this was all about, and you would come in just your beautiful self and you'd come in and you'd pick three women up at a time. You had to meaning, and buy them dinner or coffee or whatever.

00:02:48:08 - 00:03:17:07
Unknown
Take about I was credit card. Oh, I know that was later, a little later on, but yeah that's amazing. So that's where I met you 28 plus years ago. Yep. And, and so we're here today to talk about all kinds of things. Yes. You are currently in recovery. I'm in recovery time. Did you just celebrate? I just celebrated 11 a.m. a motherfucking year.

00:03:17:07 - 00:03:38:19
Unknown
Yes. Yeah. Five 2114 coming out of love and Tara. Wow. And, I did detox here. Wow. And I had very little hope when I walked into that detox because I had time before. And then I stayed out for a year talking clean and living dirty and waking up every morning and living that lie. And I thought, okay, tomorrow I'm going to.

00:03:38:20 - 00:03:55:11
Unknown
I'm going. I'm going to taper. And there's no tapering with opioids. Not for not for me. I don't have it in me. You'll have to lock me up if I was locked up and I'm going to care. But and that was the only way I ever detox was with a pair of handcuffs with a pair of handcuffs. So my hat off to you.

00:03:55:17 - 00:04:21:18
Unknown
You walked in the doors one more fucking day. Yeah, because my back was up against the wall. And sometimes that there's claw marks with me trying to hold on to stuff. And, you know, I got caught. And, this is a great story. So I'm at a meeting. I'm going to a meeting with my was with an old friend of mine, and we're sitting we're going to coffee before the meeting, and I get a phone call from from my, husband.

00:04:21:20 - 00:04:48:01
Unknown
And he said, Laurie, where are my Ferragamo shoes? And I said, I don't know where your fucking Ferragamo shoes are. He hates this story, by the way. He hates it. And I said, he said, I'm going to ask you one more time. And what I had done is I was trying to sell his shoes on eBay. I left a computer open and I had all these pairs of shoes that he had bought at thrift stores, except that they still were worth money because I'm running pills.

00:04:48:01 - 00:05:04:08
Unknown
I've got here a doctor there, a doctor everywhere, a doctor, and, and and I said he said I looked at my girlfriend, I said, I got to go home. It's got to be now. So home I went and I walk in the house. You know, it was that standing at that turning point and I was it was your goal.

00:05:04:11 - 00:05:30:16
Unknown
And I looked at him and I said, I've been getting loaded. And we get this loaded. And I called my sponsor Christy and it just stopped him in his tracks. He had no idea because I wasn't nodding out. I was getting well so nobody knew. It's my dirty little secret. And Christy got into action and I went to live and Todd and I went to live and Tara and her late husband took me there.

00:05:30:16 - 00:05:46:08
Unknown
And I remember cherry picked me up at five in the morning. I got of course, I got well before I, I don't know, of course, God forbid I gotta wait once I get here. And, and I looked at him and I said, Jerry, I don't think I can do this. I really don't think I can do this.

00:05:46:08 - 00:06:12:17
Unknown
And he said, kid, I know you can do this because I did it because he had 19 and worn out. Yeah. And, and I got here and I've never had a more loving, caring staff and, more incredible. And trust me, I'm the alumni of many, many detoxes, from American to Tarzana. Did you cry help to county jail multiple times.

00:06:12:19 - 00:06:30:12
Unknown
It's as good as it gets. Yeah, a lot of the time. That's. That's just my experience. My experience. Because I always like to say that when the student is ready, the teacher can show up here right when you're ready. Honestly, like, you could pretty much go anywhere and you're going to get what you need. But I'm glad that that was the experience.

00:06:30:14 - 00:06:48:20
Unknown
It was my experience. Yeah. Little love and Tara. But it was you. Yeah, it was me. I could I could do like, Michelin Guide detoxes, you know what I mean? And, Yeah. Tarzana. Any of them will work, you know that? Yeah, if you are willing. You're right. It doesn't matter where you go to treatment. It doesn't matter.

00:06:48:20 - 00:07:19:01
Unknown
A lot of my friends never wanted treatment. They just walked into a meeting. That's not the kind of addict that I am. Not the kind of dolphin I needed to be apart from an away from. And had I not been able to stay clean when I left live and Tara, I would have absolutely gone to treatment. You know, I don't I, I knew that, you know, people say, you know, you have to have a new experience in the program, you know, and for me, I had to have an experience, too, because I did never Glen.

00:07:19:01 - 00:07:45:22
Unknown
I never really had a spiritual connection before. And if you've never had one, you don't really know what it feels like. So I didn't really know what I was missing, but I knew that that third step for me, that that, you know, that giving yourself, you know, letting God or whatever your higher power is take control. I knew that I never, ever really, internalized that, you know what I'm saying?

00:07:46:00 - 00:08:02:14
Unknown
I never I believed that my life, I was insane, but to make a decision to turn my will in my life over to the care of God or a higher power, I couldn't do that because I'm so attached to the outcome. I need to know what the fuck is going to happen. I'd like to know when it's going to happen, you know?

00:08:02:14 - 00:08:20:16
Unknown
And so I just never had any faith. Well, I honestly I think you did because you know every time that you got clean. Yeah. You turned your will in your life over to the care of something. But I think we as addicts tend to have that forgetting, forgetting it. Forgetting. Yeah. We forget. Yeah. And then it's like, oh I got this, I got this, I got this.

00:08:20:16 - 00:08:40:15
Unknown
Yeah. And yeah, you know, in the big book there's a story about the jaywalker who first he gets hit by a car or first he, he gets, you know, he he, he gets hit by a car. The next time he gets run over by a car, the next time, you know, I was a jaywalker, you know, countless vain attempts to prove that I could use and drink like other people.

00:08:40:17 - 00:09:04:09
Unknown
Yeah. You know, like, yeah, I was under no illusion that I am the real deal, I am not. I didn't drop my fucking wine glass on the terrace at the bottom. I'm low bottom. I may not look like it, but I'm a supporter of the Boulevard guard, fifth in San Julian, crack smoking, dope shooting Warren, who did the things that women have to do to get loaded.

00:09:04:09 - 00:09:32:03
Unknown
Yes, that's who I am. Yes. And I'm a I'm a sociopath. When I'm in my disease, I will lie y right to your face. I will look at you and I will lie and believe the lie. I believe the lies. Yep. And believe them. And, you know, and I don't look like my story, which is a direct result of this program, you know, and I can tell you that I carry a message in to county jail.

00:09:32:03 - 00:09:47:13
Unknown
Now, it took me a long time to get cleared. They didn't clear me in 2008, and I was really resentful. I don't they know how much I have to haul from these people. But you know, I hadn't been off paper long enough. And when I go in there, I see women look at me. I say, you know what you see here?

00:09:47:18 - 00:10:06:16
Unknown
I'm you. I don't feel better than them. I don't. People say, don't you feel great because you can walk out and they can't. And that's not my experience. No, I feel like I am I, I was them and they are me. And the only difference is that I had to surrender to this program. Don Theodore used to say.

00:10:06:18 - 00:10:23:13
Unknown
And he was a mentor of mine. Me too. He was. I was telling my friend last night, yes, the guy was a fucking asshole, but he wasn't an asshole to me, right? He was really good to me. Yes. And I that's maybe unfair of me to say that about time, but, you know, like, he he was an asshole.

00:10:23:14 - 00:10:40:20
Unknown
He was asked, you know, like like if my, you know, she just she had a lot of experience with him when she was manager that detox. But he wasn't like that with me. Yeah. And he said, you know, Lori, you got it. You got to surrender to the thing entirety. You can't do it. You can't pick and choose.

00:10:40:22 - 00:10:59:15
Unknown
You just gotta, just gotta take some direction and then not use between meetings. There's a kicker. Yes. Yeah. That was a don I have a story about Don. It was actually my one of my first third steps right. Yeah. It was brand new and treatment. And this was back when neurofeedback was still experimental. It was Bill Scott.

00:10:59:15 - 00:11:17:12
Unknown
He, he kind of was the pioneer of neuro. Oh yeah. Yeah. The biofeedback. Yes. So I was an experiment. I was one of the first people in the trial of neurofeedback. And I did it like three times a week. And Don Theodore was running it. And on Theodore, I love this history stuff because I did too, I did too.

00:11:17:15 - 00:11:38:04
Unknown
I did bio with him. Don was on interferon for hep C, remember that? Got him knack for that. Yes. And he was so sick and he would come in hunchback, sweating, so sick. So. Oh right. And I was sitting in a fucking chair and I would let him put these fucking whatever the hell they could have been. Electrodes.

00:11:38:04 - 00:11:49:15
Unknown
For all I knew, I was like, but I was just like, whatever you tell me to do, I'm going to do because I don't want to live that way anymore, like whatever you tell me to do. And so I sit in that chair and I'd let him put these things on my brain. Yeah. Me too. I didn't know what was happening.

00:11:49:15 - 00:12:03:05
Unknown
And I did that treatment three times a week. It could have been a fucking lobotomy for I don't know. Yeah, who knows? But let me tell you that asshole. And I'd be in session and I'd be like this. And I remember I used to fall asleep and you go, don't fall asleep or you can't do it anymore. So I'd start staying awake.

00:12:03:07 - 00:12:24:00
Unknown
Haha, right. I can hear it. Yes, yes. And he wasn't nice. No, it looks like don't, please don't fall asleep. But here I would come out of like it was almost like a. And during that time I process trauma on almost a subliminal level. Yeah. Because you're in this state, right? Yeah. And I come out of some of those sessions, I wake up sobbing.

00:12:24:00 - 00:12:39:07
Unknown
Yeah, right. And Don would be there and he would just tell me like, it's okay, I talk, it's okay, and I felt safe. But that was when I knew I had turned my life and my will over the care of something, something, something so. And that was all in you were all. And he would always be there. Just tell me.

00:12:39:07 - 00:13:03:21
Unknown
It's okay. Just tell me. He had that side to him. And if he liked you. Yes. You know, and he always liked me. And he I remember he gave me that. He. You know, this is when you used to burn CDs like, give people, you know, that I don't even have a CD player. But he would give me meditation music, you know, and and when I would go to Warriors a Friday night.

00:13:03:21 - 00:13:26:12
Unknown
Yes. And he was still alive. I mean, he was getting sicker and sicker, you know. Yeah. But I would always go sit by him. Yeah. And, you know, he was he had he cared a great deal. It his deal was service love and service. Yeah. Do you remember. This is unfucking believable. You go to the old Glendale Memorial.

00:13:26:15 - 00:13:48:10
Unknown
Yes, I do, yes I do. Meeting the BBC. Meeting the big dog and pony show. Yes, I remember Don Theodore speaking. He had hair, gorgeous hair. The guy was fine as wine in the summer. Ties hair down to his waist. And he'd get up there and he'd say, hi, fans. Yes, he did it because it bothered people. It fucking.

00:13:48:13 - 00:14:15:10
Unknown
It just bothered people. And and he'd talk about, you know, the Three Little Pigs story and that there's people that are going to be in the stands. And I remember him saying this, and it really resonated with me, because I can get caught up in personalities and put personalities before the principles and not anymore. Because I have my tribe, I have some really core women in my life that I can that tell me the truth.

00:14:15:10 - 00:14:32:02
Unknown
They love me enough to tell me the truth. But there was a time when the judgment train would get rolling, and I'm sure that judgment train was rolling in regards to me. And he said, there are people on the stand, some of them are going to be thumbs up, and some of them are going to be thumbs down and you just have to be authentic.

00:14:32:04 - 00:14:47:21
Unknown
And he was authentic and he said, stay in the middle, get stay in the middle. Get it filled out the car up with you. Yes. He said, if you got a car, you better fill it up with new comers. He always brought you. He came to my home group. Yes. Which ended up eventually being this this book. Sorry, a book.

00:14:47:21 - 00:15:08:05
Unknown
Sorry. He and. Oh, yeah, we call. You used to call a mini me. He was like a god, you know, like like built like filled with the air with his own little leather vest on. Yes. And he with a couple of new guys. Always. Always. Yeah. You want to keep that car, fill it up with nougat. Absolutely.

00:15:08:05 - 00:15:30:17
Unknown
That's right. And you know what I loved about Don is a he always went to some AA meetings you know because I'm I, I aa a car. It all keeps me away from the fucking DEA. That's right. And I never denigrate another program. Whatever saves your I, I loathe that. Don't ever do that. I don't know what's going to work.

00:15:30:17 - 00:15:48:13
Unknown
I have a friend that CMA works really well in the gay community. That was his thing. Those are his people. I'm the cool secretary of a gay meeting. I am strictly Dick Lee. I have really let it all hang out. Do it, do it, do it. Yes. Not too far. I got to go. And, you know what?

00:15:48:16 - 00:16:09:17
Unknown
You know what it's about. It's about three quarters gay, one quarter straight. And I'm called Secretary because everybody's got a right to recover. Everybody's got a right to to be comfortable where they recover. And I carry a panel when I have a monthly panel, they have this new thing. Since you and I were around, where they have a panel with all of residential cry help.

00:16:09:18 - 00:16:31:09
Unknown
So there's like 80 people in there. So I go in on Saturdays and I do not follow one fucking and I rule. You want to talk about Rule Breaker? I don't do any readings, I don't they can hear the readings that are meeting. These are detox people that don't get to go to meetings. I'm not going to waste ten minutes with how it works and the 12 traditions.

00:16:31:11 - 00:16:50:13
Unknown
And I go right in and I tell the people I choose people very carefully. Curate people. You're going to get hit up in the next month or so for that panel that I, I don't want high bottom. I do you know where and yes. And I would tell me that's bullshit Lori that you but I said people down and dirty down.

00:16:50:15 - 00:17:10:21
Unknown
I said get this down and dirty as you want. Don't clean it up. This isn't Pacific Group here. We're talking this isn't the summit in Malibu, right? This is cry hell, yes. And and I let them talk about anything. Drugs, alcohol, you name it, you know. Yes. And I yeah, I really feel like. Yes. Let's talk about the fucking scar tissue.

00:17:10:21 - 00:17:41:19
Unknown
I look like I. Yes, I look like I stepped on a landmine in Vietnam, right. I do from abscesses. So I had surgery saying, yeah, that's the kind of addict I am. Yes. We know you love, love and honor and we fucking love you. Specific therapies groups or staff members. And I do want to say this, that want to say you said something which resonates, which I think is true from the standpoint that it wouldn't matter whether I was at La Ventana or, God forbid, American Hospital again.

00:17:41:19 - 00:18:02:18
Unknown
Right. But I don't know that that is true, because when I came in here, yeah, I had fallen down that scale so far. No matter how far down the scale we have gone. And I was pretty far down and I had I didn't know whether I was going to make it back here. My friends, it isn't that they judge me.

00:18:02:18 - 00:18:23:06
Unknown
It said it, it you know what? They had to take a little step back because I'd been lying to them. You know, it took people a little while and it was the best thing that could have happened. But I don't know if I didn't get the kind of love. I think it's a perfect storm. I'd have to be willing, and I needed to do it for the first time.

00:18:23:06 - 00:18:44:14
Unknown
Was tough with me. My sponsor. Yeah, she was. She wasn't. She was not a work. The steps are die, motherfucker. That's not her style. Yeah, but she said, you know, Laurie, I'll stick with you, but if it happens again and so I knew she was serious. But I do believe that feeling, that love and kindness from the staff here.

00:18:44:16 - 00:19:14:22
Unknown
From you and. Yes. And and and other people that I, you know, people that I can't remember because I was so fucked up on detox meds. But, you know, I think it makes a huge difference in my experience. Yes it does. Yeah. So it's a perfect storm willingness and feeling like that support. I think it's a combination for I mean really my kind of my theory is, you know, just it's the, you know, when I'm looking for to hire somebody, I go, you know, kindness and then like, requirements, it's kind of kindness.

00:19:14:22 - 00:19:28:18
Unknown
Kindness and then some technical knowledge. Yeah. And then some personal and some professional experience. But it's kind of kind of we need love. It's to me, detox reminds me a lot of hospice. Yeah. When people are in hospice, people are scared. They don't know what to do. Don't know what to do. Like, it's the same with detox.

00:19:28:18 - 00:19:46:01
Unknown
When you're just at your fucking breaking point, you're on your death bed. You're not on a winning streak, right? When you're when you're in detox, it's just it's it's not the lowest point of your life. And that's when you need the love the most. Yeah. And for me, it's like I personally like to treat everybody like they're a fucking rock star.

00:19:46:01 - 00:20:03:05
Unknown
Somebody very special. And you just don't know it yet. Because we all are. Yeah. And unless you can see that in somebody, you don't allow them to be that. We are all God's children. Absolutely fucking lutely. We're out of lowest. I remember we had a guy one time. We actually ended up calling him bedbug boner dude. But that's another story, right?

00:20:03:05 - 00:20:17:08
Unknown
Because what happened was he was in a shelter. I mean, there was bedbugs there. Yeah. And so we said, we're going to bring him in, but this is how we're going to do it. He cannot bring any property. He can come only in his clothes. He's got to put his ID in a plastic bag. Yeah. We had some clothes waiting for him in the garage.

00:20:17:08 - 00:20:32:19
Unknown
Yeah. So we had him go in the garage. You come in, shower and then put the fresh clothes on. Yeah. And then when ended up happening was he had a reaction that dressed down, we had a fucking boner that wouldn't quit. Oh my God. Oh that was it's very rare but it happens. We had this in the hospital and oh my gosh, this is a great big one.

00:20:32:21 - 00:20:47:18
Unknown
So I like your Grace. So he might not have been bedbugs, but he had to send them to the emergency room for a ball. Wouldn't stop. And it hurt. It's really a thing. It's like a side effect that doesn't happen often. You can look it up. It's bad. But the point is, it's like when you're at your fucking worst.

00:20:47:21 - 00:21:04:03
Unknown
Yeah. Bedbugs in a fucking shelter. Okay, well, we're going to figure out and we're going to bring you in like a human. I'm going to treat you like a human and love you like, like your family would. Right? So that you can learn to love yourself again. Yeah. That's it. That's what we do, you know? Do you know how well-respected you are going in the as in detox?

00:21:04:03 - 00:21:25:04
Unknown
You have any idea? Yeah. I talk to a lot of people, you know, you're you're kind, you're kind, kind, kind, and you care. You are such an empath. You're one of the biggest empaths I know. Takes. Maybe you know too much. It takes one to know where. Maybe you feel too much sometimes. Sometimes? Yeah. Do you take it home with you?

00:21:25:04 - 00:21:40:16
Unknown
I'm interviewing you. Okay, so I'll tell you. I have to take it home with me. Right? Because I literally have people's lives in my hands. Yeah, 24 seven. So I don't care if the phone rings at 2 a.m., I wake up and I go like this. Hold on one second and I wake up and then I go, okay, what's going on?

00:21:40:16 - 00:21:53:01
Unknown
Right. But there's a place that I have on my drive home, like when I'm when it's a heavy, a lot of heavy ass. There's a place I drive up this hill, it's herbs, and I get to the top of the hill, and then you can look over and you see the mountains. Yes. And that's the place where I go.

00:21:53:01 - 00:22:06:21
Unknown
And I specifically intention. I go, okay, cool. Here is what I'm going to leave. What I can. Right. So I don't take it home with me. What I can leave, I'll leave here in the mountains, in the universe. And I try to just release what I can. Right? Because I don't get to let everything go. No, you do, but there's a place where I go, and I go, okay, here's what I'm gonna leave.

00:22:06:21 - 00:22:28:01
Unknown
What I can hear. Can you go take a can you go on vacation and truly on vacation? Really or not really. You're always going to. Because there's clients here. There are people. There are people. There are humans. Yes, 100%. You know, this is what you get with this model, right? Right. But we have some, you know, like I have some people that I trust.

00:22:28:03 - 00:22:41:00
Unknown
So if I trust them with my life, I'm going to trust them. You could. Yes. But I'm also on call to them. Yes. And I'm very I can't help it, you know, I mean, if I say I want to go, what about let's make sure it's like, you know. Yeah, it's like my brother was a pediatrician. You're never not on.

00:22:41:02 - 00:23:00:17
Unknown
You're never, you know, somebody else is on call. You're never not on call. Somebody could get six people's lives. It's people's lives. Yeah, I take that very seriously. And that's why you are who you are. And that's what makes you so special. Yeah. Back to you. To me, I like. Why do you like that? I love God, I, I you know what?

00:23:00:17 - 00:23:29:13
Unknown
I miss my fucking calling. I need to be on this. Hahahahaha. What's wrong, Rachel Maddow? You know what? If I'm not gay? But if I were gay, I wanted to jump the fence. Rachel Maddow is my gal. I, I hope she hears us. Hahaha hahaha hahaha hahaha hahaha hahaha I love her! I love this Rachel. No. We're not going to get political on this thing because I can get political.

00:23:29:13 - 00:23:52:19
Unknown
I'm not gay. But if I was no, no not. I'm not sure if I was, I may or may not have ever done anything, but right here I with a man. I'm going to quote you again as a strictly, strictly defender, that since 19 fucking oh two, I was directly, gay for the stay radio. Hey. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

00:23:52:21 - 00:23:57:20
Unknown
I didn't know, you know, you know, you know.

00:23:57:22 - 00:24:16:18
Unknown
Exactly, exactly. I do what I did last time. I'm just saying, for the conversation, a lot of time is civil brand. For many, many years. This is my home away from home. We're all cool. Oh, I love it, people. When I people hear me say, I go, I don't know, I'm an OG. I see you have no idea what 3000 was like.

00:24:16:18 - 00:24:39:09
Unknown
It is civil grand. What was 3030 500? Which was the case? It was 3535. I wanted to honor Dawn. Got caught stealing Oder coffee, which is Oh, yes, I and they sent me from there to 3000. There was that woman that killed all her husband. She was famous. And she's in the bunk. I'm thinking, where are the fuck have I ended up.

00:24:39:11 - 00:24:58:17
Unknown
And this is a great story. So this is my first time catching when I caught. This is a whopper of a case. I wrote a lot of checks. Would not would on closed account. And that's that's a felony, right. Crimes of moral turpitude, which I think kind of sounds hot. But it isn't. So I'm fighting a case.

00:24:58:17 - 00:25:18:08
Unknown
I'm fighting I I'm they take me into reception. My first time at SBI civil branch. Yes. And I walk in there. Swear to fucking God, I did this. And there's this. There's it is a deputy really pretty deputy. And I said, I swear I did this. I tapped her on the shoulder. First of all, I don't ever touch a fucking badge, a fucking gun.

00:25:18:08 - 00:25:44:01
Unknown
I said, excuse me. She she said, I said, I said, you know what? I don't think I'm jail material. I fucking said this story. That's part of my story. Yes. And she looked at me and she said, well, guess what you are now. And I thought, Holy fuck. So they checked me into my dorm because their dorm said, when no understand is it isn't pot.

00:25:44:01 - 00:26:14:07
Unknown
You're no fucking pot. No, it's these dorms with a ton of women. There were. And you could smoke. Oh, it was a thing. And I get in there and I go, and I put my $20 bill on the bed, and I got 20 gas money. Yeah. Mad money. What, 20. What do you remember, what, 40. Yeah. And, and this, this woman who really took pity on me because of course, at 20 was gone when I got back and she said, oh, honey, you you you can't do that.

00:26:14:07 - 00:26:39:14
Unknown
You need to keep your shoes on here. They'll steal your shit. Especially you. Because you know what being a little white girl as symbol brand, you know I was a minority there and naive as hell. And I thought, boy I'm not in Kansas anymore. Yeah. My first trip to Seville Brown, I just, I found the biggest, blackest, meanest looking girl that I could find and started to fight.

00:26:39:16 - 00:26:52:22
Unknown
That's what I was told to do. That's what I was told to do. You know what I mean? Are you kidding me? Yeah, I'm not kidding. I'm in a Sally port. I got my ass fucking whipped. You're kidding me. It's like you haven't.

00:26:53:00 - 00:27:11:23
Unknown
But I learned real quick, you know, I learned you. I had to learn, you know? Yeah, I was in there when O.J. was racing down the freeway in his white Bronco. And I was in there during the 94 earthquake. Wow. And we also often not. Wait, was it? Yeah. I might have been there before. They all split. They all.

00:27:12:00 - 00:27:26:08
Unknown
Oh, you got split? Yeah. I fell off my bed. They didn't give a shit about me. They didn't care. They fucking never got nasty. That place was, you know, my being fucking decent was awful. Yeah, but it was a home away from home. Oh, yeah. And it was always a break. It was always a relief, really. I'd go in there and kick.

00:27:26:13 - 00:27:42:01
Unknown
Yeah. I knew what to do. I'd get working in the kitchen. Yeah. I mean, you had your homies, you got your little job or whatever. Job a job. Yeah. And you got a little break. You didn't break. Well, you got the house arrest. You got an arrest. Yes. Yeah I did a year flat, no early kick because my points were high.

00:27:42:03 - 00:27:57:01
Unknown
And I watch all these fucking women getting, getting let out and I'm not getting let out, you know. And they want I would have been better according to the pen I said I have no desire to meet large margins. That was actually a step up when I started going prison. I mean, as crazy as that sounds, I know.

00:27:57:01 - 00:28:12:17
Unknown
Yes. Yeah. Can't wait to get the fuck us better. Oh, everything was better. But you know where I said the food's better out there? And I said, yeah, I didn't. I had no desire to go to Chowchilla because they weren't sending you to see. I don't believe they're sending anybody in Chowchilla. Yeah. Everything. We don't live like that.

00:28:12:18 - 00:28:34:10
Unknown
No, we don't have to live like that anymore. Jesus. I haven't been to prison since 1997. Thank you, thank you, thank you to that fellowship. Thank you. People like Laurie Seggerman, who fucking was a mentor to me and paved the way. What is your support system look like now? My support system is is the biggest the biggest tool that I have is a telephone.

00:28:34:14 - 00:28:55:21
Unknown
Because if I don't tell you what's going on, you can't help me. And that sounds like a silly statement, doesn't it? But see, I had secrets because my problem always was. The eight deadly sin for me was just looking good. I don't want you to know I got ten years I fucked up. This is why, before the release, I am restless.

00:28:55:21 - 00:29:20:18
Unknown
I'm in a well, in a restless, irritable and discontent, in other words. And. And I hate you and your mother for having you. I'm sick of those people. I'm sick of those meetings. And really, all this is, is it's. I'm not okay with Lori. So it's easier for me to turn that anger. It's really fear turned outward. That's what anger is for me.

00:29:20:20 - 00:29:42:04
Unknown
And but I wasn't going to tell you that I was unhappy and miserable and insecure. I wasn't, because I had time, don't you know? And and now, you know, ten years was it's still it's a significant amount of time. A lot of AMS and PMS, as it would say, without using your I know. Yes. And, here's another person who's been there no matter what.

00:29:42:04 - 00:30:14:19
Unknown
Yeah, he's a sick motherfucker in some ways, but I, you know, I love him. I, you know, but I'm breaking. I'm breaking people's anonymity, like, right, I like it. God. But people always just beat the name. Yeah. That's exactly. It's like, just fucking slander. God, who else can I break through that? Right through the coals. Oh, I got you, I got you, I got you, I do too, but you know, what I had to do is I have women in my life that will that care enough about me to tell me the truth.

00:30:14:19 - 00:30:34:19
Unknown
Because if I ask enough of my friends, and it used to be that somebody is going to tell me what I want to hear. Yeah, but, secrets made me sick. Yeah. I didn't tell anybody. I wasn't happy that I didn't fit into this little social sewing circle of women that I was trying desperately. And you know what?

00:30:34:19 - 00:30:55:18
Unknown
They weren't even my type. They're not. They're not my people. But I wanted so desperately to fit in. And that was my core childhood issue, is that I was I was I went to kindergarten when I was four. The children were extremely cruel. There was no bullying in those days. And I went my pants every day and, you know, and and those are old ideas.

00:30:55:18 - 00:31:20:17
Unknown
But those ideas, that's that's my core. Those are my issues. And I can do all the fucking writing and all the inventory I want on that. But I ended up going to a great therapist. I went to him a few years ago because I needed to go deeper with that stuff. But what my support system looks like is I've got like I talked on the phone with 11I pulled up.

00:31:20:17 - 00:31:40:00
Unknown
I've got four women. Yes, I'll tell you, I'm incredibly close to we're really close. And the the interesting thing is she's not in the program anymore, okay? She was my caseworker. Can I help? Yeah, I don't do you can fucking vape weed all the live long day. I don't give a fuck about selling weed. You know, she doesn't need all day either.

00:31:40:05 - 00:31:58:22
Unknown
But you know what? The switch is on. You know what she has? She's been an amazing friend. We're going to Neil Diamond tomorrow night. Oh, nice. Yeah. And so I talk to her every day. I talk to my friend. I have a few people. I let them know what's going on. And you can trust them. I can trust them.

00:31:58:22 - 00:32:25:13
Unknown
Yeah, and they trust me. Because you know what? I have to be trustworthy. I'm 50% of any relationship I'm in. And you know what? This entire program for me is about? Relationship. So relationship with God with with the program with my friends, you know, that's that's it. Right. But so, so like you were saying when you got lost in service, so it's possible for you to be like 100% of a relationship.

00:32:25:13 - 00:32:49:07
Unknown
Right. So where you where somebody can come to you, but you have to have somebody you trust that you can trust. And it's it's reciprocal places that you can go. Yeah. You need to whatever it is. And you have something that's going to be there for you as well. And how about this? How about knowing your worth and I have had it doesn't mean that that I cut people off like the loose thread, like we used to use that expression.

00:32:49:07 - 00:33:10:18
Unknown
She's doing very well, by the way. Am a lawyer. Yeah. Five prison terms, and she's a high powered attorney because it can be done. Yeah. Wow. I don't do that anymore. But you know what? Some people. I need to love them from a distance. Absolutely. It's it's. I say send them a blast of love. This is what I first got back this time.

00:33:10:20 - 00:33:38:12
Unknown
People that I didn't care for, I said, can I blast them away? She said, no, Lori, you sent them a blast of love and you need to pray for them. I said, can I pray that they get what they deserve? She said, no, Lori, you have to pray that you they get what you want for yourself. And this just happened recently, you know, I don't think, you know, she didn't go through treatment, but, you know, we were talking about a mutual friend of ours, and and I like I love the girl.

00:33:38:13 - 00:33:59:17
Unknown
She doesn't live here. She lives in Europe now. She's visiting. But I need to love her from a distance because she's. There's a selfish self-centeredness to her condition. And it's never it's not I don't it's not her fault. I don't know if she's a narcissist, I don't know, I don't want to diagnose her, but I don't want to put that kind of energy into that friendship.

00:33:59:17 - 00:34:27:19
Unknown
So that's also self-care. Self esteem. Yes. Because at people pleasing for me, I didn't realize it was a character defect. You know, you're doing this for somebody because you want something, whether it's their love, their approval, their friendship, whatever it is. And to know your worth. I'm sure people come into our lives for different reasons, in different seasons, and not everybody's going to be here to stay.

00:34:27:21 - 00:34:47:14
Unknown
And it's okay. Yeah, yeah. There's some toxic motherfuckers. Yes. And there's some sick people in this program and out of this program, but there's some wonderful people, so I try to focus on that. You're one person. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. What advice would you give to someone who's currently in detox or who's feeling hopeless?

00:34:47:14 - 00:35:12:04
Unknown
Like, what would you. Okay, like, I give this advice to everybody, I do, I do too. I have two panels and I give this advice all the time. And again each and I would probably take my panel. They would I probably would first of all, I mean, you know, this is an AA panel. I said it for God sakes, if you have a fucking chance to go to treatment, are you out of your fucking mind?

00:35:12:06 - 00:35:36:20
Unknown
I don't care about your dog, your cat, your kids. You're this. You're not. You haven't been there for the last I get emotional. You've been there for fucking years. For these people, these animals, your children. Give yourself that opportunity. Give yourself a break. Yes. If you have that opportunity, if you don't, and if you can't for what you need to get to a meeting, you need to have that set up.

00:35:36:22 - 00:36:02:11
Unknown
We have 3000 meetings in Los Angeles every week, morning, noon and night. And you can get on zoom. You can go 24 hours a day. But I would the people that feel hopeless, it's so beautiful that we have a 24 hour a day program. It's hard for us. It's hard for us to not. I am always future tripping.

00:36:02:11 - 00:36:27:06
Unknown
That was what I was talking about. Where I'm attached to the outcome. Okay, I don't know what's going to happen with whatever it is, my tax return, whatever it is I'm tripping about at two in the morning, it's always a 2 or 3 in the morning. I run this shit through my head. I've had a pap smear. Maybe I have cancer, you know, like this is all going on, you know, and but what you have to do is you can't do this in detox.

00:36:27:06 - 00:36:46:08
Unknown
You can't get grounded. That's the other thing. I don't talk about steps with these people in a detox center. I they don't they don't fucking care. They want to know how do I put some time together. And I always bring people with about six months or a year because me with 11 years, that's fucking ridiculous. Yes. You got six months.

00:36:46:08 - 00:37:06:05
Unknown
How do you do it? Yes. You got three months. How do you do it? Right. Yes. They can relate to that. Yes. Yeah. 11 years. You got you got a detox. You to go 11. Yeah. Yeah yeah. To them it sounds ridiculous. And then I look like some kind of middle aged Jewish housewife. So they don't I hope they don't fucking buy that shit for a second.

00:37:06:07 - 00:37:23:02
Unknown
You know, I said, this is window dressing. Trust me. Trust me. Yeah. I'll pull my pants down. If you want to see my scars, I will do so. Yes, I would tell people to go to. I really try to tell people to do that. I know treatments, not any treatments, not a. Yeah, but it's a start. It's a start.

00:37:23:02 - 00:37:42:16
Unknown
And you get apart from a separation in a way from and you, you will never have time as an adult to just sit and work on yourself. I got to get out of here. I got to get back to my kids. My I hear it all the time. Yeah. It's always something. How do you think people can best support their their loved ones during or after detox like during and after.

00:37:42:16 - 00:38:00:03
Unknown
How do you think people can best support their life. You want me I know what I'm going to tell you the truth. I tell you the fucking truth. You know what I mean? The family fucking disease. Yeah. Get to a goddamn Narcan on her. Allen. On me. You know what? Because you can't you you didn't cause it.

00:38:00:03 - 00:38:18:00
Unknown
You can't change it and you can't control it. And it's, you know, I am. Let me tell you what what how full of shit I am right now. I am the worst untreated. Yeah. Know I was doing the same thing. I was like, I feel attacked, I feel, I feel like I can't believe this shit is coming out of my mouth.

00:38:18:02 - 00:38:38:19
Unknown
Because you know what? It's really hard for me to keep my mouth shut. Yeah, but if they don't ask to your advice, you're not. It's a double winner. Although she has fucking shitty attitude. I will tell her that she was. She is so untreated in the area of her own family. It's not even that. Yeah, but it's hard to practice at at home.

00:38:38:19 - 00:38:59:23
Unknown
Yes, it is hard. It's much tougher. But I didn't monitor. He's got 23 years and he didn't monitor my meetings. He said I'm going to get some, you know, I should get some tests. He never tested me, but you got to stay out of their business. You got to do the best you can. And the thing is, it's like you remember.

00:39:00:01 - 00:39:17:16
Unknown
Oh, yeah, Jesus Christ. And so her, her. She's done well, isn't she? I don't know, I don't know. So she's like a wet brain. I don't think she's doing that. Well I hope so okay I hope she's doing okay. But her, her husband who did my hair and I for years after I didn't sponsor her anymore. His attitude was, I don't want to talk about it.

00:39:17:16 - 00:39:36:07
Unknown
It's not my problem. It's her problem. Look at a look at all the problems they caused all these years. And the best way they can support them is get some family education with the disease. Yeah. I remember somebody saying to me, I said this to an old sponsor. Do you know, I know, yes, I yeah, I loved her.

00:39:36:07 - 00:40:07:04
Unknown
Yeah. So I remember first she said to me, as I said, you know, this is years ago when I got out of impact, I said, I, I'm depressed. And she said to me, she's an Italian old school New Yorker. She said, Laurie, of course you're fucking depressed. Your life is in the toilet. You're supposed to be depressed. But, I remember saying, you know, my family doesn't understand my disease.

00:40:07:06 - 00:40:24:04
Unknown
I didn't I said this to you, and she said, it's not your family's fucking responsibility to understand your disease, right? It's a big part of my story. I say it and it's not with any victim mentality. My, I was never the daughter my mother deserved. Never. But what can I do now? I can make a living. A man's.

00:40:24:05 - 00:40:43:23
Unknown
I have an 84 year old sponsor who is the love of light, of my life. And and I am of service to older people and I can that's that's where I can affect any change. Yes. Or a man. Because really, to make an amends. Amend means change. It's changing your behavior. It's. Sorry. I was the sorriest motherfucker on the planet.

00:40:43:23 - 00:41:01:18
Unknown
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. What? Are you going to do? That so you won't do it again? Exactly. That's what I have to say. Living amends all day, every day, baby. Every day, all day, every you. I don't think you have to make money. Me no I'm it I'm paying eternal penance all day, every fucking day.

00:41:01:18 - 00:41:15:11
Unknown
And you know, for me, the steps don't end, Laurie. Like my defects. It's every fucking day defects. Turning it over. Yeah, that happens 3 or 4 times a day. If I'm lucky, you know? Go. Oh, yeah. I'm holding this again. Let me just. Oh, yeah. Hi. You know, I have a power. Oh, yeah. You. It's not on me.

00:41:15:11 - 00:41:33:17
Unknown
I don't see you having a lot of defects. So every all the time. Anything I really, it's any any kind of like, right now what I'm really working on is venting, right? Yeah. Like when you vent. Sure. It can be cathartic and it can be like an unload, but it can also be, you know, you're wiring your brain in a certain way to perpetuate negative.

00:41:33:17 - 00:42:00:05
Unknown
My guy over and over. Right. So I'm there's always any time I'm not happy. Right. I feel like there's a defect in there somewhere. Anytime I'm frustrated, which I spend a lot of time being right the way to where I am disturbed. Yeah. The old when I'm disturbed. Yeah. Yes. So for me it's all the time like the steps I didn't work the steps I'm forever I think I want to work on the venting because I'll do it on my car in resentment when I get I am very resentful by nature.

00:42:00:09 - 00:42:19:21
Unknown
And so I do a lot of inventory of ten steps calm. Who am I resentful? Where have I been? So what do they do? Where have I been? Selfish, self-centered, dishonest, and frightened. It's always the same thing. I'm not getting what I want. You're not doing it my way. And you've hurt my feelings. But what happens is when.

00:42:19:23 - 00:42:40:23
Unknown
When I resent, I relive it over and over. So I get in my car, my teeth are clenched. You know this one. I am resentful, and I like venting, talking to nobody. Like just going over and over until I've worked myself. I have built a case. Sometimes it can be healthy, but sometimes, you know what I mean? Yeah, sometimes it's like if you're actually releasing it, you can let it go.

00:42:41:00 - 00:43:00:09
Unknown
Yeah, that's awesome. But sometimes I'm just reaffirming and like justifying the feelings and you know what I mean. Yeah. So that's something I, that's I'm going to do it I'm doing it. So I'm working the steps forever. Like I didn't remember. It doesn't. Yeah. It doesn't end. Yeah I love when people say I did it. I said, okay well what are you doing now.

00:43:00:11 - 00:43:24:00
Unknown
Yeah exactly. Exactly. And 11 and 12 baby. The journey not the destination is there. Like is there like what's a favorite part of your recovery. Like that. You like to talk about a fucking low and a high a low and a high am I. You mean the lowest low. Sure. Give me a low. And if I need a high or just any of the lows, I mean, there's fucking thousands and for me, there really were.

00:43:24:00 - 00:43:43:07
Unknown
I mean, I had a really low bottom. I was in my ex-husband with my husband at the time. He he got endocarditis twice in one year. It was medically unheard of. I haven't even heard that word in a million years. Go on. Yes. And so he got it from, you know. Yeah. Shooting drugs, dirty dope. Yeah. And so he's.

00:43:43:09 - 00:44:08:09
Unknown
And we're married and I muscled my dope a lot of the time. So I have blood and I have this huge sores on my back and they, I, I end up in the emergency room. And they had to perform surgery pretty major surgery. I used to have a pretty nice ass and I don't anymore. And they let us stay in the same hospital room.

00:44:08:11 - 00:44:36:12
Unknown
Me with surgery on my ass. Is there a pic line in here somewhere? What? Is there a pic line in here somewhere? There's a pig. Okay, he's got a central line. Yeah, he's got endocarditis, no veins. And so he's got a central line. Yeah. And so I got out before he did. And then I would drive back in the 1981 Toyota crested and that you had to stop and put water end to the valley, pick up heroin, go back to the hog every day and shoot dope right into a central line.

00:44:36:12 - 00:44:51:16
Unknown
Right. That's it. That's that's how that's how down and dirty. That's that's disgusting. Yeah. To me that was just another Thursday when I went. Yeah. Right. I knew the pig line was coming. Yeah. You know what I mean. Been there done that. Yeah. To me it's just another Thursday to other people. Yeah. Oh I not writing does.

00:44:51:17 - 00:45:13:19
Unknown
He's in there for dirty filthy heroin. Right. That's how you get the infection in your heart valves. Yeah. And the protocol is 30 days of in-hospital antibiotics. So he was in there a total of two months. Well, he got it again, and he died as a, you know, it direct result of this disease eventually. And he was a burden to his family because that's what we do.

00:45:13:21 - 00:45:32:16
Unknown
We do this disease does not give a fuck. So that was my low. Well, that was one low I always like to say like rock bottom had a basement and I had another basement. Basement? Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Oh, man. That's tunnels. Holy shit. There's a tunnel leads to another fucking basement. Just when I thought I had fucking been, you know, done the worst there is the fucking new low.

00:45:32:16 - 00:46:05:01
Unknown
You know, I treated people horribly. The people. The more you love me, the more I just rip your heart out. You know. So tell me about a high in recovery. Any like any joy beauty. What's the best of your in recovery. There was nothing like nothing like driving to Linwood. For the first time.

00:46:05:02 - 00:46:30:23
Unknown
And walking into that and walking into that jail. And I had never had a real spiritual experience. I didn't see burning bushes. People talk about it, I left there. It's a fucking horrible drive there and a lot of traffic. And I have never felt that good. And for the first time I could see that line out of the big book.

00:46:30:23 - 00:46:56:03
Unknown
No matter how far down the scale we have gone, we can see how our experience can benefit others. Yes, my lowest, my lowest points can be can give somebody hope. How fucking awesome is that. Yes. Hero. All of those people in there today in this day and age are 90% are in there is a direct or indirect result of drugs and alcohol.

00:46:56:05 - 00:47:29:00
Unknown
There are very few career criminals. Most of them are in there. They're just they're just me. They're just you know that was a true recovery high. But I love my dog I love our the animals and the life that I have built today. Yes. And I don't have to look over my shoulder. I don't have to take my money out of the bank because I'm going to get attached, because I haven't taken care of business with the are like, I don't have to live like that anymore.

00:47:29:00 - 00:47:52:20
Unknown
Those, those. That's where I used to live, even clean. And so even when I was clean and to clean up the wreckage of my past, you know, I had to pay the high cost, a low living baby, you know, and doesn't mean I'm a horrible person. It means that I, I'm a real, real. I'm the real deal. You know, there are people that are my, you know, never want to jail, never did any time owned a home.

00:47:52:22 - 00:48:09:01
Unknown
It's mind boggling to me. I don't fucking get it. Me too. Yeah, I often share what I'm sharing in meetings. I try to say so if you haven't gone to prison yet and you haven't shot dope. Yeah. And you haven't, right? Yeah. You still belong here. Yeah, but if you're worst problem is just smoking weed and your parents got mad at you, like you're.

00:48:09:01 - 00:48:34:13
Unknown
You deserve to be here because it's know it's a, it's a it's set inside the emotional bottom. Yeah. And I never want to negate that is right. But I do relate with a down a dirty. Yeah. Because everybody's not all like us. Yeah. All my girlfriends think it's so cute that their friend is a jailbird. Like they come to me with any, any jail custody questions, you know, and I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah I own it.

00:48:34:15 - 00:48:48:21
Unknown
So let me ask you one word. Like like really? Honestly, what would you say to somebody that's sitting here like, can't get a day clean or doesn't or is trying just fucking really just what would you say to them right now? Like I tell you what, I would not say, I, I think we pay people a great disservice.

00:48:48:21 - 00:49:07:07
Unknown
I actually heard this from an old timer and I it was this woman. She was the first speaker I ever related to. I went to the Real Deal at Fountain in Fairfax, and she had like 30 years of that time, and I didn't think I belonged here. I looked around the room. Everybody had red and orange and purple hair, and it was night.

00:49:07:09 - 00:49:29:11
Unknown
And she said, I never tell people, why don't you go out and get finished, right? I fucking hate that. You know what they may not give. I never say, hey, you know, if you're not done, do you can refresh your misery. You hear people say it in full fellowship, right? I never do that. I never say that. They can't get a day clean.

00:49:29:13 - 00:49:48:16
Unknown
If then I take their number. Yeah. Somebody that taught me this when I first got clean again. This time he said, don't give people your number. These new comers, you get their number. They're not going to fucking call you Laurie, right? He's the one who took me to the book this time, I, I, I believe women work with women, unless you're gay and I.

00:49:48:16 - 00:50:11:12
Unknown
And there are exceptions are I. I know like DoD sponsored Marlene. There are many exceptions, but for me, I need a female sponsor. Yeah, but, he said get their number. So I would say all I could do is let somebody know I care and go to another meeting, try them. I don't know if somebody can't get a day clean.

00:50:11:12 - 00:50:28:17
Unknown
There's a woman that goes to meetings. I don't I don't want to say this. I don't know if she's really a real alcoholic. She's straight alcohol. But I want I tell you, I think she's come back maybe 30 or 40 times, and I mean that many times a lot. But she doesn't. I think she's like a problem drinker.

00:50:28:17 - 00:50:47:01
Unknown
I don't think it ever gets to the point. But if somebody is really down and dirty and can't get a day clean, I can't get she loaded and I can't get you clean, right? You know, I can take your number, though, and I can call you, but you still have to. You said at the beginning, we still have to pick up that.

00:50:47:03 - 00:51:07:06
Unknown
You still have to answer the phone. And when I'm getting loaded, I don't want to fucking talk to you. Right. I am not interested in talking to anybody, you know, but we all we can do is be an example. Yes, that's all I can do. Yes. And you are a beautiful thing, right? I am grateful for you. I am so great and so grateful for what an experience is.

00:51:07:06 - 00:51:32:20
Unknown
Is today. I would never in my wildest dreams, you know, who would have thought? Yeah. Kindness. Surrender. Unflinching honesty. These aren't just recovery buzzwords. They're the tools that rebuilt lives. Huge thanks to Gwendolyn for showing us how compassion becomes action, and to Lori for proving that no one's too far gone to come back. This is beyond the window where we don't just talk about recovery.

00:51:32:22 - 00:51:41:05
Unknown
Mr. Big Bear, if this episode resonated with you, share it with someone who needs to hear. Need to remember. Keep showing up. We'll see you next time.