00:00:00:06 - 00:00:24:21
Unknown
Women are supposed to be quieter, right? And if we're not quiet, we're labeled as loud or crazy or all of the words that they want to use. Or. Hysterical. Oh, hysterical. It used to be called. Wait, wait, wait. That one when it was. Yeah. Maybe more opinionated or maybe anxious or depressive or, you know, manic or things like that.
00:00:24:21 - 00:00:35:00
Unknown
It was like, oh, that woman is hysterical. She's PMS. Yeah. She's missing. Like, it's just too emotional, which is super harmful.
00:00:35:02 - 00:01:06:01
Unknown
Hi. Welcome to La Ventana’s podcast Beyond the Window. My name is Carla Fernandez, licensed clinical social worker and clinical director with La Ventana Programs. And I'd like to introduce my wonderful colleague Isabelle. Hi everyone. My name is Isabelle Pilato. I am a licensed marriage of family therapist and also a clinical director here for our women's residential treatment. Awesome. And so today we're going to talk about all things women.
00:01:06:03 - 00:01:40:01
Unknown
All things women. All things mental health. Women in leadership. Empowerment. Empowerment. Yeah. Everything. All the things we got some stats, some receipts. We do, we do. I really want to talk about how we how we came to get this beautiful story. I want the origin story the public needs to know. The origin story is I was on Instagram and many of my group chats of sending memes about all things in life, because that's what adulting is all about.
00:01:40:03 - 00:02:07:01
Unknown
Literally sent to me. But yes, it was sent to me originally and then sent to Carla because we were going to film this podcast. But it was two wonderful ladies sitting filming a podcast. They were talking about the let them theory and how that's maybe not the best theory to use in every situation. And talking about specifically with women and more passive communication.
00:02:07:05 - 00:02:41:11
Unknown
And the one lady held up a fake book, as I later learned, because I googled if it exists. Hence the receipts, right, of a title that said headbutt a motherfucker in the mouth, right? And I got my brain clicking as to this would be awesome. This would be great to talk about as two women who are independent, who are in leadership and just want to talk about in general, where women are at in the world and maybe how to headbutt a motherfucker.
00:02:41:17 - 00:03:08:06
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, we can maybe end with that. Yeah. You know, I thought that was really cool and obviously something that I also feel passionate about. But it like in exploring all of this, we obviously started talking a little bit about kind of how women come to be. Right. And like the messages that society and our families and our cultures kind of already give us from, you know, just being babies.
00:03:08:06 - 00:03:34:17
Unknown
So I think that's like a good place to start. What messages did we receive? Like what comes to mind for you? Yeah. Messages I received were mixed. Right. I come from a culture in and I think me and you were talking about this to where women are very traditional gendered roles, right? Where raised to start a family were raised to be nurturing, were raised to be feminine and soft.
00:03:34:18 - 00:04:01:03
Unknown
Yeah. And my mother is also a very strong feminist. And so I have lots of memories of her, you know, going against all of those standards and going, you can be whatever you want to be if you want. Kids have kids. If you don't want kids don't have kids. Yeah, right. Yeah. And so it was very different. I would see how friends families were raising them.
00:04:01:03 - 00:04:32:01
Unknown
And I was also a very active child. I was in sports, I played soccer my entire life. And so I was always more sporty. Yeah, more masculine presenting, if we're calling it that. I was never really traditionally feminine. Feminine? Yeah. I didn't start wearing makeup until very late. I didn't really start dating until very late. Yeah. And so it was it was definitely I felt like I had a delay as most.
00:04:32:03 - 00:04:52:09
Unknown
Yeah, like compared to most women. Right. Or girls growing up. Yeah. And I think that's mainly because of my mom. Right. I think if I look cool though. Right. You did receive that messaging and you're like, yeah, you know what, actually. Right. Like, I'm gonna take my time or do this or do that and not feel like that.
00:04:52:11 - 00:05:16:06
Unknown
Additional pressure of like, oh, maybe I should be doing this or I should be doing that or, you know. Yeah, yeah. What messages did you receive? We were talking about this, and I mentioned I should be married and have six kids. I know, like, if I should have a sports team because I think not. I think I know within the messaging that I received, being Hispanic, I think played a really big role.
00:05:16:06 - 00:05:45:05
Unknown
And traditionally we're married very young and we have children and we're like the caregivers and we are the people that either do both the, you know, I can I think of the word the bread winning and also like the caretaking. Yeah. And that just was not kind of what it was for me. But I did receive a lot of like taking care of others.
00:05:45:05 - 00:06:15:20
Unknown
Taking care of others was a big message that I received within being a woman and being Hispanic, just taking care of everyone else, kind of before myself was a big message. And then that kind of bled into emotions, right? I was like a pretty emotional child. And that too. I think society already had messaging or definitions of what emotions were and what that looked like, and what they were perceived as and within the messages that I got at home.
00:06:15:20 - 00:06:31:09
Unknown
Also, it was like, keep your cool or don't talk about it or think of others things like that. You were allowed certain emotions maybe, but not others.
00:06:31:11 - 00:06:53:18
Unknown
I don't even, I think, I mean, yeah, like happiness and being in like good space, right. Was like, absolutely have all of those emotions. But being angry or being upset or creating a boundary or being sad and feeling disappointed was a little bit more frowned upon. It was more so, okay, what are we going to do about it?
00:06:53:18 - 00:07:18:04
Unknown
Keep going, keep doing. Or that emotional suppression of think about a B and see how this affects others. Definitely more. Play small, play your role, take care of others. And that's pretty much it. Yeah, from what I can recall. And that taking care of others, it's something that I always talk about in my treatment home when it comes to codependency.
00:07:18:05 - 00:07:49:07
Unknown
Yes. And how raising women and not just women, but raising children to really place them above others can be really damaging and exactly the opposite of what we're now teaching when they come to treatment as adults. Right? Or they seek mental health support as adults or we teach. No, you actually have to put yourself before others. Yeah. And that's where I think women traditionally were raised, like as you were saying.
00:07:49:07 - 00:08:13:16
Unknown
Right. Yeah. Be that nurturing role, be that person that puts everyone before you. Yeah. And if you don't do that, you're selfish, right? Or you're frowned upon. Or maybe your family isolates you. Yes, things like that. Or you're seeing as, like the bitch. Yeah. The one that's just, like, difficult. You're always difficult. You always have something to say or, you know, why can't you just get along?
00:08:13:16 - 00:08:32:05
Unknown
And not to say that feeling your emotions or putting yourself first has to come across or be this, like, really aggressive thing in nature. But it is taken that way. I think sometimes I think now that we're on the topic of like women emotions and then mental health and the messaging that we try to provide within our homes.
00:08:32:06 - 00:08:56:15
Unknown
I run a men's mental health home, so I kind of see like the other side of it a little bit. But for women, we are taught to kind of shapeshift depending on what everyone else needs, kind of even within leadership. And we'll go down that road. Right. But just wanting to meet everyone else's needs, because from such a young age, you're taught to take care of others, right?
00:08:56:20 - 00:09:22:00
Unknown
And then what we miss a little bit is the psychological pressure that that super unloads on anyone. Right. But women, I think disproportionately because of the ways that were raised. We are then always kind of carrying this emotional labor of taking care of others. And let me put myself last. And it does lead to codependency, which then leads you to so many other dangerous situations.
00:09:22:01 - 00:09:55:05
Unknown
Right? But if we put it in the in the perspective of, okay, I have to let everyone else feel first and take care of everyone else. And what happens to my emotions, which leads to, I mean, resentment, guilt, anger, anxiety, people pleasing perfectionism, you know, lack of boundaries. And then where does that lead you? Right. So I think that then kind of throws us into mental health illnesses in a lot of ways, aside from, you know, just inherited and, you know, maybe other traumas that we, we unfortunately experience.
00:09:55:05 - 00:10:19:15
Unknown
But I think on top of that, that kind of just hours after. Yes. Right, absolutely. Or when you walk into a room, we're taught to be a little bit vigilant of what is everyone feeling? What is everyone facial expressions look like? Do I need to check in with someone? Do I need to ask if they're okay where expected to be in that nurturing role at all times, even when we're not doing well?
00:10:19:16 - 00:10:48:09
Unknown
Yeah, right. No, absolutely. And how that pressure can really lead to burnout. Yeah. To compassion fatigue, especially if you're in a helper role as a woman. If you help all day long at your job and then you come home, and maybe your family system also expects you to be in that helper role. Yeah. It's too much. Yeah, it's too much for anyone to, like, bear that that that load and be like, fine at the end of the day.
00:10:48:09 - 00:11:11:15
Unknown
And I would even like, explore. Like I'm probably a therapist because of how it's conditioned. Right. Like, I love helping people, I do, I enjoy it. I think it's something that I'm really passionate about. And it was born in like really feeling passionate about helping minorities of all types. And then it kind of grew from there. But if I'm being honest, I think it was also just within my family role.
00:11:11:15 - 00:11:31:22
Unknown
That was just that was what I was. And, you know, I'm I come from a family of all women. And so all of the women were kind of that way. And so that's what I was around. Right? Right. And it's cool, I think, within our treatment program that all of us are also disproportionately like women in leadership roles.
00:11:31:22 - 00:11:52:17
Unknown
I think that that's really cool. But within that, I have also struggled finding my place within leadership in terms of how do I present, how do I present, how do I want to present, and where does that lend me as a woman, and where does that land me as a leader? And like what the difference is can be?
00:11:52:18 - 00:12:17:03
Unknown
I know for sure going into a leadership role and being just pretty firm and assertive. There's a lot in my head about myself because of all of the messages that I received when I was younger, it felt like wrong and it felt like I would shame myself. Kind of about like, was that too assertive? Was it was that borderline aggressive harsh?
00:12:17:04 - 00:12:38:00
Unknown
Yeah. Was a creating a boundary where like, maybe I shouldn't, I should just let them and, you know, things of that nature, it kind of gets you into second guessing yourself in a lot of places. And it's not so much the fear of being in leadership roles. It's the fear of like, how are people going to perceive me when I'm a woman and I'm supposed to be this way, but in this, yeah.
00:12:38:01 - 00:13:01:01
Unknown
And this leadership role, this demands me to be this other way in order to lead like a successful program. And I think that's also part of the messages that we receive of like, the word that comes off is like softness, right? How feminine is equal to soft, right. And what that really means, I remember there was like a trend of soft girl era.
00:13:01:02 - 00:13:28:23
Unknown
Oh yes. Of like, I don't really know what it meant all the way. Yeah. But of like how that is more of that traditional women's role. And are we teaching people to be very soft, maybe very passive, letting things go, not setting boundaries, not being assertive, putting yourself aside. Yeah. Not speaking out when that's not really. We don't want that to be the goal for anyone, regardless of gender.
00:13:29:00 - 00:13:47:05
Unknown
And I think like hear me out. I do think if it fits for you and it like works cool. That's great. I'm not it's not, I'm not I don't think that we're coming. I actually I know we're not coming from a place of like if that's where you prefer. Right on. I do think that we are highlighting or I'd like to highlight when it becomes a problem.
00:13:47:06 - 00:14:04:06
Unknown
Yeah. When it becomes a problem that you are not standing on for yourself or creating boundaries or being assertive, where you maybe could benefit to be a little bit more assertive for the sake of your own mental health, and for the sake of how you carry yourself. I know that that's something that when I worked with a woman I really tried to instill.
00:14:04:07 - 00:14:26:08
Unknown
Yeah, like making creating your boundaries and that also creates safety for you. It's hard to do. It's hard to create boundaries and be the person that always has something to say or be like, hey, actually that that doesn't work for me. Or, you know, I don't appreciate A, B, and C, it's hard to say that out loud, but also there's a safety you're creating behind it for yourself mentally, physically, emotionally.
00:14:26:09 - 00:14:45:21
Unknown
So I think it's important to distinguish like why it's important that we're talking about this and why it's important to highlight how some of these messages that we do receive and the society kind of places on us are harmful, which then kind of goes back to like let them well, no, don't let them write like headbutt that motherfucker in the mouth.
00:14:45:23 - 00:15:10:07
Unknown
Yeah. And we don't condone violence. No, we we don't, we don't. Yeah. I guess from what came up in my head to emotional safety versus physical safety. Yeah, right. We talk about that a lot in in trauma groups that we do. And like in attachment I run attachment of physical safety has always been a sensitive issue I think for women.
00:15:10:08 - 00:15:41:13
Unknown
Right. We're we're taught different techniques to keep ourselves physically safe. Right. You with your keys and your train. Your hands. Yep. Carrying pepper spray. Right. Don't walk places alone. Don't keep your iPods in. I mean you're yeah. You're. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. You know, you never know. Yeah. And then there's emotional safety. And I think when we're talking about being assertive and letting people know when they crossed a line or crossed a boundary, that's what we call creating emotional safety within my system.
00:15:41:14 - 00:16:09:21
Unknown
Right? Whether it's with my social support, with my friends, with my partner, with my family, with my colleagues, with my boss, whatever it may be, we have to figure out techniques of how to be assertive and yet calm. Yeah, right. Yes. Be vocal, but not be harsh. Right. And that's part of, like, the softness we're taught. The softness almost overrides that.
00:16:09:21 - 00:16:35:07
Unknown
We can't speak up, we can't advocate. And therefore emotional safety isn't on the table. And because we just cross it off all together. Right. I'm suppressing it. Ignoring when things go wrong. I'm ignoring when people across my boundaries. I'm ignoring when when things just happen. And I'm like, well, that's the way it is, right? I found myself doing that multiple times throughout my lifetime of especially hearing like, violence against women.
00:16:35:08 - 00:17:03:03
Unknown
Right? I run women's program. We unfortunately get a lot of trauma, a lot of domestic violence. Right. And hearing I mean, we have the stats to right and hearing for stories and personal experiences. You really start to question, right. Have we progressed as a society not to put doom and gloom on anything because obviously we have progressed. Yeah, we're doing a whole lot these days, right?
00:17:03:05 - 00:17:31:05
Unknown
And there's still so much violence. There's still so much, so many countries, not just the US, that we're talking about worldwide, that women are treated less than right, that the gender pay gap still exists, that women are supposed to address certain ways. Right. Things like that are still happening in age, certain way, in age, certain ways. Yeah. Especially in Southern California.
00:17:31:06 - 00:17:53:11
Unknown
That one. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And then yeah, on Instagram all you see is like aging just going off of that a little bit. Aging in a super graceful soft way but not fully aging. Yeah. Like you can look like you're aging but you can't fully look. Yeah. Don't have too many races. Yes. Like go get that looked at.
00:17:53:11 - 00:18:13:14
Unknown
Go get that taken care of. Make it look softer and more like appeasing, you know to the viewer what have you, especially in. Yeah, Southern California. I think there's like a very big pressure. And then there was like the differences between like allowing men to age. However it is at the age. Right. And then having women have to age a certain way.
00:18:13:15 - 00:18:35:01
Unknown
Not to say that men don't have their own pressures. Absolutely. But I think it's like really, really emphasized with women a whole lot. And I always think about the gray hair, right? I love gray hair. I keep trying to convince my mom to go gray. She's like getting a little bit, but she'll still diet. I think it's I think it's beautiful.
00:18:35:03 - 00:18:52:09
Unknown
Go. Yeah. If you want to go gray obviously Dyer hair when you're on Dyer. Yeah, yeah. And there I think there is this panic that I hear the older I get. And my friends are getting grays. Oh my God, I have gray hair. And then I'm like, it's good. Yeah. You pull that shit out if you want. Fine.
00:18:52:10 - 00:19:20:03
Unknown
Yeah yeah yeah I think that's where it is. It's like there's this anxiety about aging. Aging itself brings so many difficulties. And then if we add women and like aging standards, that gets a lot, a lot more difficult. Asher. On to it. There's a statistic I pulled up about I don't know if the category is body modification, right.
00:19:20:04 - 00:19:51:15
Unknown
But we're talking about Botox and filler and all of the anti-aging procedures. Women account for approximately 85 to 95% of all cosmetic, Botox and filler procedures globally. In the US, about 2.5 million people, mostly women, receive Botox annually. And again, Carla and I are coming from a standpoint of get what you want to get to your face. But when we're talking about it has created a standard that's something different, right?
00:19:51:16 - 00:20:13:11
Unknown
Where now it's we're creating additional anxiety in society on women to look a certain way. Just something else to worry about, you know, on top of everything else. Just something else to like, have to watch out for. If we're playing, like, backwards in that way, we're we're just talking about emotional physical safety, then it's also like, how is everyone else preserving me?
00:20:13:12 - 00:20:31:17
Unknown
And then how do I feel about myself? And what does that tell me about me? It's just there's a lot of pressures, I think, on top of, like the psychological pressures that we were mentioning, there's a lot of pressure, like within the world to exist and how we exist and how to best do it. Yes. Let's talk about how we exist.
00:20:31:18 - 00:20:38:04
Unknown
How are we supposed to address like what have you learned?
00:20:38:06 - 00:21:02:19
Unknown
How are we supposed to look put together? Yeah. Put together presentable. Nice I would say like I'm thinking of my mom as I'm, like, going through this. I'm like, what would she tell me? You know, just like, like, put some makeup on. Where are you going? You can go like that. Like, you know, just with love, I guess, you know, like, meaning really, really well, but.
00:21:02:19 - 00:21:18:12
Unknown
Yeah, just always, like, definitely put together. And then again, that goes back into the messaging for who like at this point I love, I love I'm like I love all things like makeup and like do my hair. And then like I love nice clothes. I love getting things for myself. And at this point it is for me, like I really enjoy it.
00:21:18:13 - 00:21:38:16
Unknown
I enjoy it so much. It's like the funniest thing ever. However, like that's not where I think not. And I think that is not where I was born. It was more so present yourself a certain way for others, which goes back into like the taking care of, you know. But yeah, it was, it was for family or we're going to the store or what are people going to think and like, what are people think?
00:21:38:18 - 00:22:07:05
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, yeah. What about you? I was thinking of my head. I, I don't remember much about, like, makeup and stuff. Again, that wasn't really emphasized in my household. I do remember and she'll she'll probably hate that I'm saying this, but she my mom always used to want me to wear dresses and skirts and be, again, more traditionally feminine presenting.
00:22:07:06 - 00:22:28:22
Unknown
Yeah, not. I mean, she still tells me to wear more of those things, right? But that's just that wasn't my vibe. Still not my vibe. Yeah. And so I think that was like the only thing that I really felt that I didn't want to do. I know when I was little, little, obviously they dressed me in whatever, right?
00:22:29:00 - 00:22:50:08
Unknown
Or a lot of dresses in skirts. And, and in terms of like makeup and things like standards was like, you wear makeup, right? Look that presentable but don't wear too much makeup that people will comment on it. Yeah. Yeah. I think especially like aging and clothing. Right. Don't wear anything too revealing. Yeah. People are going to judge.
00:22:50:09 - 00:23:18:00
Unknown
Yeah. But then like to cover it up is like, what are you doing. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's I think what what we're getting to in this discussion is there's so many really confusing opposing standards. Yeah, right. Yeah. In communication, in how we present, in how we're supposed to act and behave. Right. Yeah. Be soft and feminine, but yet be powerful.
00:23:18:02 - 00:23:44:10
Unknown
Look, wear makeup, but don't wear too much right this down. Be confident, but still likable. Speak up. But like, not too much. Be assertive, but not too assertive to where it sounds aggressive. Yeah, it's like this constant balance of okay how? And then again, what keeps sticking out to me is how do we make it more digestible for others, right.
00:23:44:10 - 00:24:06:09
Unknown
It feels like it's kind of always in the back of my mind. And I know, I mean, maybe this is just more so my perspective, but I want to get yours is like, how did that come into the room with you when you became a clinical director? Like when you took on a leadership role, do you feel like there was anything any of that at play with you?
00:24:06:10 - 00:24:32:00
Unknown
Absolutely. Yeah, I think I had a little bit of imposter syndrome with wanting the role, which I felt like comfortable with enough because it was already part of what I was already doing. Right? I was a primary clinician for so long, and then I felt a little imposter syndrome with, oh, but now I have to oversee stuff, right?
00:24:32:02 - 00:24:57:12
Unknown
And oversee male and female stuff, right? And so there was a little bit of this in maybe not anxiety to the extent, but more of like a thought of how is managing men different, right. And coming into leadership as a woman? Are they going to see me different? Yeah, I am very different than the clinical director before in terms of how I look in my age.
00:24:57:12 - 00:25:24:22
Unknown
Right. And so I think that was part of it. And then obviously in a leadership role, you have to present yourself a certain way. You network yourself a certain way and trying to find my own. I was really careful and trying to find my own groove, not necessarily what someone else's, someone else's groove was, or how other people spoke or or things.
00:25:24:23 - 00:25:51:08
Unknown
And I think it's different for us, obviously, because we're we're therapists. Right. Yeah. For sure. Right. There's like an adaptability that we have. But when we're I think especially talking to families, talking to loved ones, talking to support systems, showing up in the house a certain way. Right. There is this balance of softness and of a service that you have to to practice and then also model.
00:25:51:10 - 00:26:19:14
Unknown
Yeah, for our clients, because that's who matters at the end of the day is like, how do we model maybe a little bit of, what we're struggling with or what we're learning. Yeah. And also giving them the techniques, giving them the tools. Right. Yeah. So I think that's also like a huge point to what's something that you felt you had to unlearn within this role.
00:26:19:16 - 00:26:41:22
Unknown
If anything, I had to unlearn to stop apologizing. I think that's a big one, and I don't really know where I picked it up necessarily, of when I said something or I gave feedback if there was.
00:26:41:23 - 00:27:06:16
Unknown
You're not a bad reaction. But just like you could, you could see that someone was like, oh, like I felt hurt or sad. I had to, like, stop myself from being like, oh, I'm so sorry. I didn't mean not that I didn't mean that, but hurt, right? I think I had that still that nurture. Let me take care of the person and your emotions and what you're feeling about it and ran through it.
00:27:06:17 - 00:27:27:00
Unknown
Right. Which is exactly what we're talking about at the beginning is were raised to, oh, I said something that I set a boundary over or I meant, I can't do it. I meant but then it's like, oh, how are you with it? Right. Yeah, yeah. What's something you had to unlearn? I would say probably the same. I think for me it's a little different because I do run a men's home.
00:27:27:00 - 00:27:53:11
Unknown
So I when I ran as a clinical director, the teen home, it was much easier and it was easier for me to sit in as like that nurturer and as a, you know, a leader and kind of a role model. It was so easy and really like kind of my origin story behind wanting to become a licensed clinical social worker and do this type of work was when I was working in a residential home for women, for girls.
00:27:53:16 - 00:28:11:03
Unknown
I just found it just so amazing, and I was so inspired by it, and I wanted to go back to school to continue. So when I did that, I was like, easy, you know? It's like I felt like like a mom with boundaries, obviously, but just like leading them in a different way. Yeah. So there wasn't much, I think, there.
00:28:11:05 - 00:28:36:05
Unknown
But now that I'm running a men's home, it's definitely different. I do think like I have had to learn similarly to you, apologizing and having to explain myself. Yes. Over explaining, oh my gosh, I am an overexposure to the core. That's just always who I've been since I was very young. Like just explaining my side of the story and making sure that you understand it and that you understand that I didn't mean harm or what have you.
00:28:36:05 - 00:28:55:20
Unknown
Right. And so I think that has been a huge, huge, huge part of my learning. Now, just I know that I mean, well, I know that ethically I am sound, I'm making ethically sound decisions, and I want what's best for you within your treatment and within the home. Right. So I don't want to have to explain it all the time.
00:28:55:20 - 00:29:31:11
Unknown
I think over apologizing to I think that was a little less hard for me in terms of just like if I'm saying something right for me, for you, for them, for whoever, I'm not going to apologize that you have your feelings for it because you don't like how that feels for you. Knowing that I say it with respect and with kindness and with care, but firmly, you know, I think like at first, maybe I did have a little bit of difficulty with that, but then it just kind of was like, okay, well, I'll help you take care of your emotions, but I'm not going to like, curb what my needs are or the needs within
00:29:31:11 - 00:29:55:15
Unknown
the home are to kind of appease what it is that you need or what you feel like. Right? Yeah. But also within now that we're just like talking about like, leadership and, how that felt and like you talked about, like, imposter syndrome and, and if you even felt like, gosh, I'm here, how do I do this in the previous clinical director was like a little bit different.
00:29:55:15 - 00:30:19:18
Unknown
How do I show up and ages and all of the things I think for me, it had to do a lot with trying not to over soften. Yeah. I don't find myself like an aggressive person, but I am an assertive person. I've always been an assertive person. You're going to know kind of how I feel about things. I take on things and and you're going to know it for me or for others.
00:30:19:18 - 00:30:39:17
Unknown
Like if I find something inappropriate for others, I'm going to be the first one to say, hey, like, hold on, what's going on? And things like that. And I think at first within the men's home, the word that they often use is mean, like she's mean or she's like intimidating is what I got within, like the first simile I want to say.
00:30:39:19 - 00:30:56:07
Unknown
And I had like good rapport with them. But then I would have to explore like, what do you mean, mean, right. Yeah. Like, what do you mean? Can you tell me a little bit more about, like what you think that I said that was mean and really what it was, it was like I was setting a boundary with you.
00:30:56:08 - 00:31:14:03
Unknown
Right? And that felt really uncomfortable for me to call you out on your behavior. And you didn't want to feel that. And so therefore, I mean, and I'm intimidating because I'm just telling you how to treat me as a person or how to treat others as a person within this home. Right. And that kind of I had to unlearn because I initially was like, oh my gosh, I am me.
00:31:14:04 - 00:31:33:12
Unknown
I can't do that. I can't let them, you know, be inappropriate at whatever capacity as opposed to no. Hold on. I'm leading this home. And if you know, appear within the home, another client is feeling uncomfortable. I have to say something, right? Because that's why I'm there. That's why I'm the one who's going to regulate. Yes, we're protecting each other and regulate.
00:31:33:13 - 00:31:55:07
Unknown
Kind of like the emotional safety within the home for everyone. And then it does look like leading staff that are men within the home. And how is that different and how will they take to me? And does it feel different for them to. I think I have found like a good balance between like being super friendly and like personable, because that's also something I enjoy.
00:31:55:07 - 00:32:15:12
Unknown
I really like to like build rapport with staff and clients and I enjoy it. I love having that like camaraderie and like that humor within the home. But then it's also like when it's time to be a little bit more assertive and create some of those lines. I'm okay with doing that. Yeah, but but it took a little bit of hold on, I'm okay.
00:32:15:13 - 00:32:38:17
Unknown
There was one time it was interesting in the house manager in the house, the home for myself, the home that I run. She had this conversation and she basically like summed it up really well. She said, I love the way you're always friendly and but then as soon as you like make a boundary or you like state a rule or something or provide a directive, it's like angry woman agree woman.
00:32:38:18 - 00:32:57:05
Unknown
And I'm like, yeah, that's kind of what it feels like a little bit at first, right? I think, again, we've grown with it and we've gotten into like a really good flow, but that is like the best way I can sum it up. It felt like if I was making something a little bit more concrete or addressing it, it felt like angry.
00:32:57:06 - 00:33:15:23
Unknown
Yes. Oh, she's no feelings about it, I promise. Or maybe feelings of like, ouch, that sucks. But more so, like I'm drawing the line and this is where we're at. Yeah, and what a mirror to like outside of treatment to of how many labels get put on women when they are sort of in and outside of the workplace.
00:33:15:23 - 00:33:38:11
Unknown
Right? I'm sure there are a lot of women out there that can relate. Yeah, of setting some kind of entre, being assertive with their needs, whatever it may be in the workplace, and also having that label on them. And you know how unfair that is, right? And I, and I hope society continues to grow and progress in this.
00:33:38:11 - 00:33:43:01
Unknown
And that's a very traditional.
00:33:43:03 - 00:34:09:13
Unknown
Issue of women are supposed to be quieter. Right. And if we're not quiet, we're labeled as loud or crazy or all of the words that they want to use or hysterical. Oh, hysterical. Share those that it used to be called way, way, way back when. When it was. Yeah, maybe more opinionated or maybe anxious or depressive or, you know, manic or things like that.
00:34:09:13 - 00:34:32:12
Unknown
It was like, oh, that woman is hysterical. She's PMS. Yeah. She's missing. It's just too emotional, right? Which is super harmful. But I think what you were just stating kind of also what sticks out to me is we are working here and speaking about this subject as to female leaders within the mental health field. So there's a lot of education there too.
00:34:32:12 - 00:34:57:01
Unknown
And we are very aware of these things. Right. So I think it's like easier for us to say, hold on. I was starting to make these boundaries and this felt uncomfortable, but I did it anyway. And I knew this, that and the other. Right. There's the fences came back. Right. We can see that. Yes, but but then it's like we're we talk about then women within like the world don't, don't always have that education.
00:34:57:04 - 00:35:19:00
Unknown
Yeah. I'm even thinking about clients like female clients. Like they, they I remember when I would introduce like, boundaries. A lot of them didn't know what they were. Yes. Like communication styles. A lot of them felt like assertive was mean and unkind, you know, so it's like, yeah. So and these women that I'm thinking about like are coming to minor are in their 30s and 40s, 5060.
00:35:19:01 - 00:35:46:16
Unknown
Right. So it's like they went without learning this and then talking or thinking about where that places us and what that makes us more susceptible to. We talked a little bit about codependency. Right. And codependency is is in a nutshell, like taking care of others before taking care of yourself and also just like making it, I guess, more impossible to fully take care of others and yourself because it's like you guys are intertwined.
00:35:46:17 - 00:36:13:04
Unknown
Yes. And how that maybe that along with not being able to or not feeling able to create boundaries and not being able to or feeling able to kind of make others uncomfortable before yourself, where that puts us within the world. Also as victims, I think it like perpetuates a cycle for us. And that brought me back to a statistic that you had.
00:36:13:05 - 00:36:40:09
Unknown
Do you have it or you bring it up? Yeah. So we have a statistic of victims of violence. About 1 in 3 women have experienced sexual violence, physical violence and or stalking by an intimate partner in their lifetime. So with that statistic, I know the word victim comes with a lot of connotation. You can use what word fits for you and your own head, right?
00:36:40:10 - 00:37:07:08
Unknown
Survivor can be one. When we talk about susceptibility and what that means is because there is this tendency, this push, this pressure to put everyone's needs above our own. Unfortunately, that means that our needs get pushed to the side a little bit quicker and more frequently than maybe our partners, maybe our family members or friends, whoever were providing support to.
00:37:07:09 - 00:37:35:14
Unknown
And when I don't have the energy, the time to check in with myself, check in with my needs, check in with, do a relationship inventory, whatever it may be. That unfortunately will lead to ignoring red flags, right? Or ignoring the yellow flags or getting into patterns of toxic relationships or things can really escalate to violence. Yeah. Or if we grew up in family systems where you talked about this way early on, right?
00:37:35:15 - 00:37:55:00
Unknown
I'm about family dynamics, in which maybe there was a pattern of men being violent in the home and how understood that being okay and that being okay, or just maybe not being okay, maybe just being ignored, right? Maybe it was never said it was okay, but maybe it was just something that it is what it is. They just accepted it.
00:37:55:00 - 00:38:15:05
Unknown
Yeah. And how that can lead to patterns in relationships later in life where that unfortunately happens to us ourselves. Right. Seems more, you know, no one really bats an eyelash or we don't bite an eyelash because it's like, oh, I saw this. This is familiar. I'm already used to it. It's messaging that I received. This is normal. Yeah, it is what it is.
00:38:15:06 - 00:38:48:09
Unknown
Yeah. There's also an interesting statistic on PTSD. Oh, I did see that one too. Compared with men, women are twice as likely to experience PTSD. Women are more likely to have hypervigilance field oppressed and have trouble feeling emotions twice as likely though. 1 in 3 right is we've been in a room of multiple women. Yeah, 1 in 3 of us twice as likely and so similar with I have another one on mental health conditions.
00:38:48:11 - 00:39:17:08
Unknown
Each year. 1 in 5 women in the US have a mental health problem such as depression, PTSD, or an eating disorder, right? Approximately 85 to 95% of people with anorexia nervosa or bulimia, and 65% of people with a binge eating disorder are women. Yeah, right. There are direct correlations to the issues and the pressures that we're talking about to rates of mental health among women, I think.
00:39:17:10 - 00:39:34:21
Unknown
Go ahead. Sorry. No. Yeah. I think we could learn like, as men and women, if we're talking about like, counterparts or, you know, differences in generals, I think we can learn a little bit more from each other, I think is what I have found within my work with with primarily adult men within the mental health field, I think.
00:39:34:22 - 00:40:02:20
Unknown
And within that statistic, also one of them that you read was men are more likely to feel angry and have problems with alcohol or drugs. Maybe that's like a podcast subject for another day, but I think like that is what I see a whole lot of. And so where then I think would be super cool to like overlap is, you know, I believe in certain situations, in certain circumstances, men do that because they don't feel like they can be emotionally vulnerable.
00:40:02:20 - 00:40:21:21
Unknown
And then going back to family dynamics, the same way that women are conditioned to be a certain way. Right. So if I'm thinking about like I'm Hispanic within like a Hispanic household, the girl is supposed to be taking care of like the brother and like, doing their dishes and doing their laundry and like, making sure that their home at a certain time, because you're a woman and you should be doing this and you should be you should be at home.
00:40:21:21 - 00:40:41:00
Unknown
And for a man within that same household that have looked very different. Right. Like, you don't really have to take care of others, and that's not your job. And you can do whatever you need and not really take anything anyone else into consideration. Not to say that they don't have their own struggles, but they are taught to deal with them in a different way and takes like, you know, be out and do things.
00:40:41:00 - 00:40:59:19
Unknown
And so then of course, like naturally, if you are seen as weak and you are emotional or feeling certain things as a man, then you will go towards other things, right? So it's like even within that statistic or even within the statistic of like 1 in 5 women in the United States has a mental health problems such as depression, anxiety, so on and so forth.
00:41:00:00 - 00:41:31:12
Unknown
Maybe men do have them, they just don't speak about it as much. And then that also goes back to the conditioning and the messages that we receive from being, you know, babies up until now. And then if women were maybe a little bit like, what's the word I'm looking for? Not angry, bolder and more selfish and in some ways, and if men were more or welcome to be more vulnerable and open with their emotions and their experiences, like we might be at a happy medium, right?
00:41:31:16 - 00:41:57:23
Unknown
Taking some some really good qualities from each other so that we could all succeed. Yeah. And I think the, the clinically the suppression again generalized statement between men and women very different. Yeah. Yeah. Women suppress the emotions that were not allowed to have men suppress most, if not all right. And turn to other modes of release. Yeah yeah yeah yeah.
00:41:58:01 - 00:42:28:00
Unknown
And I think also we're talking a little bit earlier about like milestones, right. That we're, we're raised to have these milestones in life. Right. Go to school, get a job, have a family, things like that. I think one pressure often and I see this a lot with younger clients who come through this house as they start to feel undervalued and ashamed when they don't subscribe or they aren't at the place that society says we're supposed to be at.
00:42:28:01 - 00:42:49:02
Unknown
Right? I'm 25 and I don't have a kid yet. I don't have a partner. I don't maybe have a career long standing yet. And how that can really add to the depression and the anxiety that the mental health. Right? I mean, I don't know about you. I get asked probably on a weekly basis, where's my partner? Where's my child?
00:42:49:07 - 00:43:07:02
Unknown
Right. That I don't have. Yeah. I think, you know, it's really cool. I think in that sense my mom has been like really awesome. And just being like, you're fine, do whatever you got to do. Like, she's really proud of me in terms of like what I'm doing and has never been honestly, say she's never been like, where's your boyfriend?
00:43:07:02 - 00:43:25:21
Unknown
Or like, have you ever thought of having kids or anything like that? Maybe like aunts and stuff like that. Will ask once in a while. So I don't know that I share that within people asking me, but I feel it. Yeah, like within society and like people asking about like, oh, do you have a boyfriend? You have a partner?
00:43:25:21 - 00:43:55:00
Unknown
Nope. I'm like, so good. And I think like even one time we had like this conversation, I think all of us talking about like where you see yourself, you know, within like partnership and marriage and kids and things like that. And I find like when I give people my answer, they're like, really like, oh, no. Okay. Not that I, you know, would never want to like, marry or have children, but that's like not the top of my mountain.
00:43:55:00 - 00:44:16:15
Unknown
And so it's like people are like, oh, then what, you know, or things like that, or don't authentically believe it. And I'm like, no, I think it's beautifully, authentically believe it. It's such a good point. Yeah. You don't know yet. Yes. Maybe when you find wait till you get older. Wait till you like. You don't know what love is until you have your own child or or things like that.
00:44:16:15 - 00:44:46:20
Unknown
Or like, just like being maternal in a way. Like I have felt maternal my whole life. Like I, you know, I feel like I've always been a caregiver and like, I feel I do feel like a maternal individual myself, even without having kids. Right. And there's like, love everywhere to be found, not just within like partnerships. But I do think that that definitely is something that comes up, even though my family doesn't say it like within society and like what's what's, you know, society expects of you at a certain age.
00:44:46:20 - 00:45:04:14
Unknown
We're supposed to. Yeah. And then on the other end, it's like, okay, if you don't at a certain age, what's wrong with you? Yeah. Like, what is the matter? Yeah. Like, you must be a hoot, because. Why? You know, and it's like. That's what I mean. Like, they don't authentically believe, like. No, like, actually, there's nothing like wrong.
00:45:04:15 - 00:45:28:22
Unknown
I mean, maybe, you know, up to prospective. Yeah, but just I'm hanging out. I'm like, really, really devoted to my job and like, my family and things that I like to do. And that's different. And what beautiful values. Yes. Right. Yeah. Do you have a question? How do women unintentionally reinforce harmful standards for each other? I think that right there, the questions that we get asked.
00:45:28:23 - 00:45:52:10
Unknown
Right. That's not unintentional harm. Yeah. It's not malicious. Yeah. Not coming from a bad place. And yeah, it continues to kind of like perpetuate the idea that, like, you should. Right. Why don't you what's going on? You know, even going back to like, milestones, right. Like people get congratulated for, like, getting married and having children and things like that.
00:45:52:10 - 00:46:14:10
Unknown
And it's just like I got, like, a new job, I got my license, I got my masters. I'm like all of these things, right? And again, going back into like, throwing it back into mental health, that that could also be like big psychological pressures that then begin to increase, like the anxiety and depression and like feeling less than and feeling that shame and that guilt of like what I need to be versus what I am.
00:46:14:11 - 00:46:42:03
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. And and going into like the idea of independent women. Yeah. Family systems have changed so much. Right. We have more single parents out there. We have just changing family dynamics over time. Right. We used to be raised in villages and we're not. Yeah. And the idea of an independent woman and how that's sometimes not understood. Yeah.
00:46:42:08 - 00:47:08:11
Unknown
Of how can someone be without children or they feel sure you right. They called spinsters or Krazy Kat ladies. Right. There's all labels. Kidding. I've never heard a man be called a crazy man. Crazy, crazy cat man. Dogman dog man. Yeah, right. Yeah, but there's all these labels for women. Yeah. And not to say again, like, I don't want to say I'm like, oh my God, men love men again.
00:47:08:12 - 00:47:31:13
Unknown
That's another podcast. But yeah, there's just like there there's differences in struggles for sure. Yeah. I'd like to go to like forward looking. I think these are fun little questions. What kind of world do we want younger girls growing up in? What does it mean? Do you think of.
00:47:31:15 - 00:48:08:10
Unknown
I. I like, desperately want a world where women feel both safe and heard physically, emotionally safe, and heard and valued. Right? I think, I mean, I, I go back to like value and self-esteem, right? We talked about aging, we talked about beauty, and we talked about sourcing. It's ace exhausting and how that really can impact our value and therefore impact my self-esteem and how I myself can build my value, my self-esteem, my power.
00:48:08:14 - 00:48:33:12
Unknown
Because it's really hard to feel powerful and assertive and feel like I have autonomy and feel like I can do anything in the world if I don't have. And I feel like society values me, values my voice for values that yeah, yeah. And I desperately want a world in which anyone who identifies as a woman, right, can feel heard and powerful in their own right.
00:48:33:14 - 00:49:00:08
Unknown
I think in the US it's different, right? For sure. In the US it's it's different. I think there's many countries that don't have the same views and that's their culture and I respect that. I hear that, yeah. And in the US, I would love to see positive change in that direction. Yeah, I love that. I would agree with everything that you said.
00:49:00:08 - 00:49:27:05
Unknown
It goes like beautifully stated. It hits on everything that I was thinking of. Yeah. What advice would we give younger women on a you co-host? What advice would you give to younger women? I think kind of even going on in like, both. What kind of world do we want to want younger girls growing up when everything you said I completely agree with and then kind of intertwining would advice.
00:49:27:05 - 00:49:43:15
Unknown
So a little bit of both. Like I would love women to be able to continue to live in a world because I think there's some of this already going on. Not to say that we don't, you know, have any of it, but I would love to see more of this and also give advice to women to be bold and take up space.
00:49:43:16 - 00:50:22:06
Unknown
Yeah. Like it is totally okay to take up space and not feel guilty about it and not feel like, oh, does anyone else want to take the mic? Like, is everyone else okay? Just like take it right? Be bold and outspoken and opinionated and ambitious and just kind of like go, right? I think I would love to see more of that, and I would love to give advice to younger women on that same note, and if society or someone else labels you during that time, remembering that you have people in your corner and hopefully you have people in your corner, right, that you can turn to to express, I did this and I'm trying to
00:50:22:06 - 00:50:45:13
Unknown
do this, and this is what I got labeled as. And really looking at when people label, it's like their defenses, right? They're uncomfortable. And how do I not take that on as my own to fix? Yeah. And I think like it's it's so awesome that that exists because even just within kind of like this right now, it's how I feel about like leadership within lobbied for us right now.
00:50:45:14 - 00:51:05:21
Unknown
Like I think even talking about like some of the questions, you know, when what did you have to learn or things like that and having imposter syndrome and things of that nature, nature very early on. And I've always been like pretty transparent about like, this is what's going on for me and things like that. So I would tell Sharon and Sharon basically like it helped a lot with it.
00:51:05:23 - 00:51:23:20
Unknown
It was just kind of like, why are you explaining yourself? You know, like you made a good call. That was a good call. And you care about A, B, and C, but why are you explaining it? Like take up space without feeling like you have to like, explain or adjust or make smaller or, you know, make it fit for everyone, right?
00:51:23:21 - 00:51:47:23
Unknown
And I think that has been huge within my ability to lead within like this treatment program, because I do feel like empowered to do so. Right. Yeah. It's it's so important to have someone like a Sharon for us. Yeah. Whether it's in your personal life, your partner, whoever it is who can say, go you right, you don't have to do like go.
00:51:48:00 - 00:52:08:05
Unknown
Yet it goes back to the attachment perspective, right? When I have that tether, when I have that secure connection with someone, I'm able to explore, right? I'm free to explore. I'm safe to explore. But with all the issues that we kind of talked about and covered, it can be feel really hard to feel safe enough to explore. Yeah, right.
00:52:08:06 - 00:52:41:23
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. All right. So let's wrap up here. One of the last questions that I think, like I would love to answer with you would be what do we want strength to look like for women. Like moving forward. What would yeah strength for women I think how we should define it moving forward or, or my opinion is to be opinionated, to be taking up space to dress how you want to address, to look, how you want to look, to discover and define what feminine is to you.
00:52:42:00 - 00:53:11:00
Unknown
What's soft or not soft is to you and to look within. For when we are struggling with pressure, struggling with with emotional issues, whatever it may be of like, how do we start to trust ourselves rather than the standards that get put onto us? Yeah, I would agree. I think everything you said, and I think what I'll throw in there is, string.
00:53:11:00 - 00:53:34:01
Unknown
I would love for a strength for women to look like less explanations. Yeah, like taking up space and then just like it being the space and apologize. Yes. Stop apologizing now is a full sentence. All. All the good things. Yeah. Yeah. Good. Thank you for watching. Love, Antanas. Be on the window podcast. You can catch us on YouTube and Spotify, and we'll see you in the next episode.